05-02-2026, 02:55 PM
Similar to Mbites, this is my opinion as a player and not necessarily the opinion of the full team.
Thank you for putting the request in Svet. I'm going to try to keep it short because I started with trying to write a summary and THEN a more detailed section and already it was big, so I'm keeping just the summary and will expound on questions as we go. I think others have raised good concerns and very good questions up to now, as well, and I haven't tried to address them here at all, either.
Long story short I was pleasantly surprised at how much of what you're proposing is not too extreme - however the fact that it's not too extreme makes me think that you and I still have a significant distance on what is *really* ICly happening in Trigunia/Nadiya, versus what I had hoped could be explained as simply unreliable IC information. Now that we're trying to make an OOC statement of fact, we really need to get to the bottom of what is actually true in Trigunia/Nadiya versus what is not.
Things I think need to change in the CP before I would support:
Thank you for putting the request in Svet. I'm going to try to keep it short because I started with trying to write a summary and THEN a more detailed section and already it was big, so I'm keeping just the summary and will expound on questions as we go. I think others have raised good concerns and very good questions up to now, as well, and I haven't tried to address them here at all, either.
Long story short I was pleasantly surprised at how much of what you're proposing is not too extreme - however the fact that it's not too extreme makes me think that you and I still have a significant distance on what is *really* ICly happening in Trigunia/Nadiya, versus what I had hoped could be explained as simply unreliable IC information. Now that we're trying to make an OOC statement of fact, we really need to get to the bottom of what is actually true in Trigunia/Nadiya versus what is not.
Things I think need to change in the CP before I would support:
- Overview
- I don't see why the previous overview needs to change at all. It was much more robust and gave some historical context for how and why certain populations are there.
- I don't see why the previous overview needs to change at all. It was much more robust and gave some historical context for how and why certain populations are there.
- "Nova Baegukyan"
- Nova Baegukyan (NB from hereon) appears to be your invention. If a new player came to Trigunia/Nadiya (T/N from hereon) and wanted to know what language to use to represent NB, what should they use? Is this a real life language? How should it be classified in the Guo-Wolf classification? T/N has two lingua franca already - why would refugees from Baeguk not learn these languages (in an already very language-rich environment, surely that would be practical?) - it's not like they were isolated and made to remain unassimilated, the whole point of your RP as far as I can tell is making everyone Nadiyan - what would be the impetus for refugees from Baeguk and their descendants to create their own pidgin? I also will be frank that I just don't like the name - "Baegukyan" is not a language - Kyo is. I am assuming the bulk of refugees from Baeguk would have been Kyo people - Why would these people and their language be named in such a way? Tldr: I think it's fine for some linguistic mixing to occur between Rodshyan and Kyo in the refugee community in T/N, but for that to end up meaning a totally new ethnic group and language feels unlikely to me. I'd prefer the ethnicity and language both to be called "Kyo".
- Nova Baegukyan (NB from hereon) appears to be your invention. If a new player came to Trigunia/Nadiya (T/N from hereon) and wanted to know what language to use to represent NB, what should they use? Is this a real life language? How should it be classified in the Guo-Wolf classification? T/N has two lingua franca already - why would refugees from Baeguk not learn these languages (in an already very language-rich environment, surely that would be practical?) - it's not like they were isolated and made to remain unassimilated, the whole point of your RP as far as I can tell is making everyone Nadiyan - what would be the impetus for refugees from Baeguk and their descendants to create their own pidgin? I also will be frank that I just don't like the name - "Baegukyan" is not a language - Kyo is. I am assuming the bulk of refugees from Baeguk would have been Kyo people - Why would these people and their language be named in such a way? Tldr: I think it's fine for some linguistic mixing to occur between Rodshyan and Kyo in the refugee community in T/N, but for that to end up meaning a totally new ethnic group and language feels unlikely to me. I'd prefer the ethnicity and language both to be called "Kyo".
- Language
- This is one of my biggest concerns with the CP as you present it - if we approve this CP change, I would start flagging future use of Kyo/NB language on official documents as OOC CP violations. I've always been on the edge about it anyway - the Kyo language is not on Trigunia's existing CP - but I have always given you benefit of the doubt that your use of it was an official government policy of affirmative action (I've read Martin, too). This proposed CP makes clear that OOCly Kyo/NB is not an official language in T/N, so I can only therefore interpret use of Kyo/NB to be out of fit with the CP (both the old and the proposed). I think you have two options here: 1) update the languages section to be more specific about linguistic distribution, and make Kyo/NB a large enough distribution to warrant use on official documents. The issue here is that I will almost certainly oppose any number you propose, for reasons I outlined above in the NB section OR 2) leave the Language section as is and stop using Kyo/NB on IC stuff. I prefer the latter.
- This is one of my biggest concerns with the CP as you present it - if we approve this CP change, I would start flagging future use of Kyo/NB language on official documents as OOC CP violations. I've always been on the edge about it anyway - the Kyo language is not on Trigunia's existing CP - but I have always given you benefit of the doubt that your use of it was an official government policy of affirmative action (I've read Martin, too). This proposed CP makes clear that OOCly Kyo/NB is not an official language in T/N, so I can only therefore interpret use of Kyo/NB to be out of fit with the CP (both the old and the proposed). I think you have two options here: 1) update the languages section to be more specific about linguistic distribution, and make Kyo/NB a large enough distribution to warrant use on official documents. The issue here is that I will almost certainly oppose any number you propose, for reasons I outlined above in the NB section OR 2) leave the Language section as is and stop using Kyo/NB on IC stuff. I prefer the latter.
- Religion
- The proposed increase from 0% to 40% for the Matriarchal church is just too much. Very similar to language above, I gave the benefit of the doubt in your RP and made the OOC conclusion that when you wrote on 17 Jan 2025 that the church had grown from 3 million to 30 million relative to your post on 14 Jan 2025 (4 real life days between posts means a max of 2 in game years), surely that must have been IC propaganda that was not actually true OOC. It is clear to me from the 40% request that you mean that to be literally true. I simply can't approve of that. I realize you have continued to RP with the church in the intervening time, and I realize now obviously that I should have broached this earlier with you, and I apologize for my error in that - but the point of CP approvals like this is to ensure we *don't* let unrealistic RP change the long term character of a nation, and this is just flat out unrealistic.
I know you have stated you would be willing compromise on around 20-25% for the MCN - that's just not far enough for me. Generally speaking anything beyond 5%-10% ish has never been approved in CP updates - it's just too much in too short a time. It also just really doesn't make sense with the RP you've done - why did the church go from 3->30 million in 2 years, and then now it's flatlined at 49 million (40%) for nearly 100 years? If we went to 20% it would have actually shrank to 25 million! All of this is to highlight that the RP claim of 30 million just was never realistic and cannot really be used as support for the change. To approve, I'd need this to be around 5% as the OOC factual approved value. ICly the government could continue to say "50 million Trigunians attend MCN churches" and maybe that could even be true - plenty of people love to dance to the government tune when it helps them rise in status - but 50 million true believers in MCN in T/N isn't working for me. I think this would help enrich the RP in T/N, to be honest - you could then focus in on telling stories about who these conversos are, what role they play in society, and how others in society interact with them.
- I am interested in your response to Wu Han's post. One of the reasons we have CPs is to help ensure that if you drop off the game next week, a player in T/N could pick up the RP you have done and know how to proceed with the country. How could someone who is not you know how to play the MCN?
- The proposed increase from 0% to 40% for the Matriarchal church is just too much. Very similar to language above, I gave the benefit of the doubt in your RP and made the OOC conclusion that when you wrote on 17 Jan 2025 that the church had grown from 3 million to 30 million relative to your post on 14 Jan 2025 (4 real life days between posts means a max of 2 in game years), surely that must have been IC propaganda that was not actually true OOC. It is clear to me from the 40% request that you mean that to be literally true. I simply can't approve of that. I realize you have continued to RP with the church in the intervening time, and I realize now obviously that I should have broached this earlier with you, and I apologize for my error in that - but the point of CP approvals like this is to ensure we *don't* let unrealistic RP change the long term character of a nation, and this is just flat out unrealistic.
- Typos
- Please correct "Rodashyan" to the correct "Rodshyan", "Kirivian" to the correct "Krivian".
- Please correct "Rodashyan" to the correct "Rodshyan", "Kirivian" to the correct "Krivian".